Jeannie Walters: 0:09

You know what that means. It's my favorite episode of the month. It is time for CX Pulse Check. This is where we go in and look at a few recent things that have happened with a special co-host who can help us understand what lessons we can learn about customer experience and how we can apply that to the work we do every day. I'm your host, Jeannie Walters, and I am thrilled to invite my co-host to the stage. Today we have Jennie Lewis from Airship. Jennie, I'm so happy you're here with us today. Thanks for being here.

Jennie Lewis: 0:41

Thanks so much. I am thrilled to be joining you today.

Jeannie Walters: 0:44

Well, we're going to have a great conversation, I know. But before we jump into that, I know you're working on some really cool stuff. And I just love how you're approaching this work. So I would love for you to share a little bit more about you and the work you're doing and your background as well.

Jennie Lewis: 1:00

Totally. Yeah. Um my name's Jennie Lewis. I've been in the digital marketing space about 20 years. I have worked with a lot of awesome brands. I started working on Perl Code for email personalization when it was my first job in tech. And now I'm more in the strategy and research space. So I have always been agency side and work with a lot of different uh types of customers. Uh, currently doing a ton of AI research and builds, um, something that I never thought I would be doing if you had asked me even a year ago what I was going to be up to. But yeah, I am working mostly on building internal tools for our go-to-market teams, um, essentially trying to help surface the research in a way that is friendly and more market-facing instead of it just being like spreadsheets and big numbers.

Jeannie Walters: 1:55

Well, and that's the the conversation that you and I have had recently about, you know, how can we make the insights a little more accessible? Because if we can get them faster, if we can get them in a way that is more intuitive, then we're going to be able to respond faster. We're going to be able to improve and innovate and do all the things that we want to do with those insights. So I think it's it's filling a gap that a lot of people didn't even realize was there. And that's what's so exciting about kind of the time we're living in right now. So I um, and you and I know each other through Women in CX. So a little shout out to them. If you're not familiar with that community, check that out. And yeah, I'm just thrilled to have you here and dive into a few fun things. And we are in customer experience, which means we always have to have an ear towards customer service and support and what really is happening when customers have those issues that we need to react to. So, this first article is from Consumer Affairs, and the headline is customer service AI bots not ready for prime time survey suggests. One of the reasons I wanted to talk about this is because as we move forward, I'm finding that I'm getting a little whiplash about this discussion. Like, are AI bots good for everybody? Are they not? There is some data coming out saying that when AI bots use voice, customers actually respond better to that and they give higher rankings. So there are all sorts of things happening here. But this really showed that if you only focus on efficiency and speed it with the AI bot, you're not going to get that customer response that you want. So, where do you land on all of this? You know, all these different things happening with AI and bots and service.

Jennie Lewis: 3:48

I love this article so much because it's it's something that I think everybody has actually experienced as a customer, like as a consumer of information out in the world. You're talking to an airline and you're saying, My upgrade request is not showing up on my ticket. Where is it?

Jeannie Walters: 4:07

Just had this conversation, Jennie.

Jennie Lewis: 4:09

Yeah. And no, it's and then and then nine times out of 10, that information does not transfer to the next step in the process. And the the automated bot thing, or whatever it is, if it's chat bot AI, I don't know, is some sort of automation with like pre-selected options for support. It can't help you with that problem. And then the information doesn't transfer. And the thing I thought that was so interesting about this article, and I look, I'm a I'm a tech person and I am as guilty of this as any tech person. I love the cool new shiny thing and playing with tech toys, right? Like it's it's fun to do, it's fun to launch, like it's it's cool to solve problems with. But if we're thinking about speed and not solving the customer problem, then we're we're not actually fixing anything from a CX perspective, right? Like we it the speed of the answer is not the customer problem. Solving the problem is what we need to do for the customer. And frankly, that's what AI is actually really good at. There's a lot of use cases in this article about things like transferring information or putting context or even doing knowledge base information for support reps to help them answer questions with more ease. Those would help, those things are A, AI is awesome at them. And B, it helps both the rep and also the customer.

Jeannie Walters: 5:40

Right.

Jennie Lewis: 5:40

So I think it's, you know, there's a lot of places that we could grow in this without just saying, like, oh, make it faster.

Jeannie Walters: 5:45

Yeah, absolutely. And I think one of the things that you have surfaced here is that we need to think about not just what is the interaction with that customer in that moment, but also the support uh employees, the people who are there, both directly with the customer and also the ones who are either figuring out that this is a bigger problem, figuring out root cause analysis, connecting the dots on the back end so that it doesn't keep happening, all of that can be tied in too. And AI could surface those things in a really powerful way, but we have to ask the right questions. And I think that's what I keep saying, seeing is that to your point, like we're we're not asking questions about speed. We should be asking questions about what is going to solve the customer's problem in the fastest, easiest way. But sometimes that means, you know, taking a step back. So one of the things I'm really curious about as we move forward with this is it feels like trust has been eroded with these bots, with both customers and employees, frankly, because some of the knowledge, some of the original knowledge bases that were built were pretty bad, right? Um, and they get better over time, they get better over time. But um now I think we have to put a lot of like humanity up front to build trust to use these things and feel like yes, this is going to do okay. So that's what I'm saying.

Jennie Lewis: 7:18

I a hundred percent, because it if you lose that humanity in the conversation, it it also it also it also erases all of the empathy of the conversation too. It's like, okay, well, I'm I'm boiling down your outreach today to these four topics. And if you are not talking to me about these four topics, clearly are you you must not be our customer, right? Like it has to be one of these four topics, which is absurd, right? Like even for a retail, for an airline, for anybody, right? Like it's just, I mean, think about a bank, how many different use cases there could be.

Jeannie Walters: 7:52

Yeah, yeah.

Jennie Lewis: 7:53

And that's the thing where it's like the with AI and with the capabilities of classification and the natural language processing, we have the capability to stop trying to assume the answer before people are able to communicate that to you, right? And that that's the point where I think that we've we've gotten to that in the AI technology, that the ability to classify and process the request is so advanced now that we can start with a more helpful question instead of saying, like, oh, pick from this list.

Jeannie Walters: 8:30

Well, and I think, you know, we both before we started recording, even we were talking about like, oh my gosh, have you tried this and this and this, all these things that we're experimenting with? Because it is a little shiny thing syndrome right now, but it's also like I'm blown, I'm not a tech person, right? And the fact that I can do certain things with AI blows me away. And so I'm, you know, what is it in today's world? Do we need to like put on blinders? Do we need to just decide to use one tool and go for it? I think that's what I'm feeling right now, and what I'm seeing a lot of people struggle with is we're in a swirl of shiny new things, and they all have good purposes and they seem really great. You know, their marketing material is top-notch. And and so what wisdom do you have as someone who's kind of in the trenches experimenting with this? How do you prioritize? What where do you spend your time? What takes priority?

Jennie Lewis: 9:33

Well, I so I always tell folks, use the thing you have access to, right? Like, don't don't try to go buy, you know, all of the things because I, you know, like having tested a lot of them, they all have pros and cons. And they all have things that they're like, some of them are actually like really good at. Like if you if you want something to create a table layout for you that's pretty to like visualize information, chat GPT creates the best markdown tables, right? Like they're beautiful. And as a very like data-y, like structured information person, to me, that was so appealing. I was like, oh, I just I love this, right? But then I started thinking about it, I was like, well, I actually like I have Gemini Pro, so it's like I don't really like need both of them. And and so I've actually focused in more and just using most mostly Gemini is is what I'm on. And then there are some things that are from a coding perspective, different tools that we use, like Cursor is a coding tool, and that has several different models that it can talk to, um, like like Opus. Um, and from a coding perspective, that does a lot. It does things that are completely different because of the way it's built and the context is built within that particular platform. So I'd say there's like very bespoke solutions, but 99% of what I'm doing is on Gemini. I just decided to like narrow it in.

Jeannie Walters: 11:02

And you know what I found is that I kind of use them sometimes as a thought partner, right? Like pressure testing ideas or giving me different angles. And I found that just like I started thinking about it as you know, it's kind of like when you have that group of advisors in your life or your group of friends who you turn to, like one of them is gonna see it one way and the other one is gonna see it the other way, and they're both valuable. So it's I think that's what I'm kind of experimenting with is okay, if I hear this over here, and then I go to this other tool and I kind of test it differently over here, I'm going to get more information, more input. And sometimes that's really good. Sometimes you can keep going down the rabbit hole.

Jennie Lewis: 11:45

Just keep digging and digging and digging, right? Yeah, like yeah, yeah. It's a fine line between analysis paralysis, and like getting the help.

Jeannie Walters: 11:56

Yes, exactly. I know sometimes I'm like, okay, you have 15 minutes, right? Like that's it. Because you can keep going, because they will keep going. They never tire, they never fatigue, they never need a cup of coffee, they can just keep going. So I think that right now we're in a really interesting place kind of on the arc of humanity where we're learning the capabilities, but also how do we interact with these tools and what does that do for the work we produce and the way we feel and all those things? And you know, there's lots happening around that. So I just think it's really interesting to keep watching this kind of AI chat discussion because literally the data swings back and forth. And I think part of it is what are our expectations? And so, as customers, as the trust goes up and the expectations shift, the data will shift and the feedback will shift. So just another, another thing that will continue to change too fast.

Jennie Lewis: 12:56

It's very similar to the um to like the data security conversations over the last five years, right? Like, how what information am I providing you? How are you using that information? And is that of benefit to me as a consumer?

Jeannie Walters: 13:11

So I wanted to bring up this next one, which is about hospitality and travel, because AI has really had an impact on that industry as well. But this is um from breaking travel news, and I think this is the uh I'm gonna say this as best I can. Ireckonu Ireckonu um 2025 year in review, what had happened in the hospitality technology industry. And the part that I found compelling about this was that we are um, you know, hospitality has been a little bit ahead on certain things around automation and certain ways to give people kind of control in the moment. They were early adopters to things like you can make reservations on your phone, you could um use the kiosk when you checked in. Now there's contactless where you get the digital key on your app and you don't even have to talk to anybody. And yet, as we are um looking at this, there is a big uplift right now in the way they're using AI. And I think we're going to start seeing some of those same things we just talked about, where some customers are gonna love it, but if they take it too far too fast, people are not going to feel like it's hospitality anymore. And there are certain factors that I think we also have to explore here because as a traveler on my own a lot with business travel, um, you know, I consider things like safety and and good lighting and all those things when I'm traveling. And I wonder like how much of that is going to come through if they're relying on all that. So I'm kind of freewheeling here, but the the approach in hospitality, I think, is always interesting to look at because in some ways they're ahead. And in some ways, I think they're always going to take that next step and then hear from their customers if it's working or not. So any thoughts on this one?

Jennie Lewis: 15:13

I so first off, the solo traveler thing and safety considerations are huge. And I think that there's there is something about because I actually I as much as a tech person as I am, I actually don't use the mobile keys. I actually yeah,

Jeannie Walters: 15:28

I don't either.

Jennie Lewis: 15:29

I keep the the interaction in that in that front desk situation because it's I I just I don't know, I just find that like that that workflow is better for me. Um, but yeah, the like safety considerations and being able to have conversations and getting a quick answer, there's a reason it's hospitality, right? Like there's you can't you can't create that human interaction with a piece of technology. It just it's not that's not where we are right now.

Jeannie Walters: 16:01

So to your point about like creating that human connection too, one of the things that I've seen is that because they're centralizing a lot of the workforce too, um, I had an experience where there was a virtual front desk, meaning there was literally a screen, and I don't know where the woman was, but she wasn't in the hotel. And she interacted like I could talk to her. And at one point I came down because my key wasn't working, because that has to happen once, you know, a trip. At least once and they had a little box, and she's she typed on her side and she said scan it. And I was like, okay, so that's that part was nice because it was so quick and I didn't have to stand in line or anything. But I was looking around, it was at night, and I was looking around thinking, so nobody's in the lobby, right? Nobody real is in the lobby. And maybe they had a security guard, I don't know, but it just like it's moments like that that I think we have to really think through with the customer design. Because even though the front desk experience might be fine with a virtual agent, what does that mean to the actual experience on the property? And so there are just all these bigger questions that it ties right back to the first thing we talked about. It's like if we're not asking the right questions, it's hard to figure out if this is really working or not.

Jennie Lewis: 17:24

First off, I'm shocked. I had not heard about this virtual check-in before pretty well. Insane. I because my first question is, but why? Yeah, right. Like what, like why, like I just I'm trying to imagine the conference room where this got thought of. Um like, but like, but why actually like why did you do this? And then secondly, from a safety perspective, I mean, as a as a solo female traveler, because I like have done a lot of business travel over the years, there have been a lot of times where I was getting followed to the elevators and you turned right back around and stood by the front desk because there were the people there, right? And just waited for yeah, like just waited it out, right? Like, I'm not gonna get like you know, somebody like following and asking, like, oh, my sister's upstairs, and I really need to get upstairs, you know, she's with some guy, and it's like, no, actually, that's not what's going on, and I'm just gonna go stand by the front desk till that, you know, till you go away. And if there's not a person there,

Jeannie Walters: 18:23

I mean, I think it's so funny that you say that because I think every woman listening is probably like, of course, like we've all been there. There was a time in a snowstorm where I was I parked my rental car, I was going to the back door of the hotel, and I had that feeling that somebody was behind me and just did not look right. So I walked all the way around to the front for exactly what you're talking about, like just so that I would be walking in where there are people, and you know, um, and I think that those types of conversations in those conference rooms are so important. And maybe we're not having them enough, you know, maybe we're not bringing up these things that are very human experiences that aren't part of the, well, first they check in and then they go to their room, right? Like we don't necessarily expand the kind of view of what we're looking at when we think about the customer experience in that way. And if we're re relegating everything to AI and everything to automation and virtual, we're missing the opportunity to really serve people when they most need people. And I think that's really important in those moments too.

Jennie Lewis: 19:35

A hundred percent. And like you said, like literally every female traveler listening to this is gonna have an experience that is similar. Yeah. And it and it's the it makes me think about journey mapping conversations, right? Like when we're working with brands and we're doing the journal journey map and we're like, okay, this is like the best path that could happen. But drilling down into well, what are the what are the things that go wrong? And what are the things that go wrong most frequently? And that voice of customer piece of information, yes. First off, we need more of that, just hands down, we need more DOC, like in general. But thinking of it from an AI perspective as well, that's the place AI can help. What are the most common themes? What are things that we have not thought of yet that are places we need to address in this map, right? Like take all of your support call transcripts, take all of your tickets and customer interaction logs and put all of that in, and then use it to, like you were saying, like a thought partner, like brainstorming, because those are places that we could be getting an enormous amount of value from these tools. And it's you know, you don't have to be like a prompt wizard to do this, right? Like just have a conversation.

Jeannie Walters: 20:55

And you know, what would be really interesting is to not only put in what you are getting directly, but like social media reviews. What are people saying on Reddit, right? Like that's when you find out, like, you know, yes, it's it's cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs over there. But at the same time, there are a lot of rich stories that if you if you find them, they really give you a lot of information. So there is just this whole world. And the last thing I want to just touch on briefly is with all this AI, one of the things that's coming up, and hospitality is included here, is dynamic pricing. And this is when they automatically make changes based on who's logging in, like who are you, the dates, the demand, all of those things. So you and I could book the same hotel room, you do it on Monday, you book it for 200, I do it on Tuesday, it's 400. And I think customers are getting savvier about this, and they are starting to experiment and figure out like, oh, if I cancel and come back, you know, I just did this frankly with a subscription. I was like, I'm gonna cancel this. They said, How about how about it $10 instead of $40? Sure, that sounds great, right? Like, yeah, why didn't you give that to me in the beginning? So I'm just watching that very carefully because I think that's something that the brands are getting really excited about, but customers are not going to love it.

Jennie Lewis: 22:20

Oh, I I it's a terrible idea. I and so I actually just had this happen um on Uber the other day because I'm in New York City. Like we we do delivery for everything, it's a it's a way of life, right? And the there was a flag in the bottom of the app when I and I was ordering a car, I think. It was like, oh, this this pricing has been set dynamically. I'm like, oh like tell me, tell me more, Uber, about what about what you're doing here, you know? And it's it's you know, like, can you use my membership status to personalize things? Sure, right? Like that's a very different thing to give offers or to incentivize folks to do certain actions. I mean, that's that's a key loyalty play, right? Like that's and that's not what folks are doing here. This is this is like economic supply and demand, cost adjusting. On the flip side, I actually had a really good experience with Verizon. We've had internet from Verizon for out of years and years, and I got a flyer about like, oh, we want to offer you a loyalty discount. It's like, oh, yeah, nice. But like, thanks.

Jeannie Walters: 23:35

Yeah, and proactive.

Jennie Lewis: 23:38

no monitor, yeah,

Jeannie Walters: 23:40

You didn't have to threaten to cancel, they just decided, like, no, we want to keep this person, so yeah.

Jennie Lewis: 23:45

They just sent out a mailer, right? Because I think there's you know, like there's more more competition coming into the city, right? Like, there's more providers coming in, and it was a proactive thing they did. When I first saw it, I was like, this can't be real, right? And so I was like, this is like this can this could not be a real thing. So I like went on and got the the standard Verizon number and called, and they're like, no, no, this is a this is a real offer, right? And it I was like, wow, it's actually that's like a very positive way to use these capabilities instead of it being such a weird, like even grocery stores have done this dynamic pricing, and it is I not not a fan.

Jeannie Walters: 24:26

It's not no, and I think that as customers become more aware of it, I think there will be more backlash personally. But well, I could talk to you all day. Um and I love the work you're doing. I love how you're experimenting and really looking for ways to make those insights matter more um to the work that everybody's doing. So thank you for that. And thank you for sharing all of your wisdom with us today. Um, if our listeners want to hear more from you or want to connect, what's the best way for them to do that?

Jennie Lewis: 24:58

I'm on uh LinkedIn as uh Jennie Lewis, uh L-E-W-I-S. So uh happy to connect with folks and continue the conversation.

Jeannie Walters: 25:07

Awesome. And we will make sure that's in the show notes for everybody. But Jennie, thank you so much uh for making time right after right after the blizzard. And and I cannot wait to see what you do next. I will be cheering you on. So thank you for being here. Thank you everybody for being here as well as part of our audience here at Experience Action Podcast. I can't wait to answer your next question. Leave it for me at askjeannie.vip. And maybe you'll hear your voice on the podcast. Thank you so much for being here, and we will see you next time.