Jeannie Walters: 0:10

It's another episode of CX Pulse Check, where I talk to some of my amazing friends who are experts in their field and get their take on some relevant and timely headlines in the customer experience world. Today, I'm so thrilled to bring with me none other than Neen James. Neen, how are you?

Neen James: 0:31

G'day. What a treat to be back on your show. Like being with you and seeing what you've evolved this into. Amazing. It's a privilege to be back with you.

Jeannie Walters: 0:40

Well, thank you so much. We're so honored that you're here with us and, of course, you were on the last podcast talking about attention and talking about that book. You have an exciting new book coming out I would love for you to share. Yes, tell us all about it.

Neen James: 0:55

So this is called Exceptional Experiences which I know your listeners and your watchers will love.

Neen James: 1:06

Five luxury levers to elevate every aspect of your business. So this is truly like a playbook full of systems of elevation that every business can use if you want to drive revenue and create advocates in your business.

Jeannie Walters: 1:16

Excellent, and I know you have so much background, especially around luxury experiences, and so one of the things that I wanted to kind of dive into today was how are we defining luxury anymore? Right Like, this is really something that I think we look back on, kind of the golden era the 50s, 60s it was very obvious, right Like who, where was the luxury? And now I think we're all defining that a little differently. So how would you define that? How would you define luxury?

Neen James: 1:46

I think the word is very divisive, because I think, honey, there's still a leftover thought of elitist and not approachable, and I believe that people define luxury very differently.

Neen James: 1:58

I have a friend and he defines it by the luxury of time, others by texture and feel. But I did a research study into what I believe is luxury as a mindset, and I've always believed luxury as a mindset, but there was no research study to prove it. So I commissioned the only research study of its kind in the world to discover there's not just one, there's four mindsets. But before I get into that, what we discovered is there were five key characteristics that everyone surveyed agreed on. They all said that luxury is high quality, long lasting, authentic, unique and indulgent. Now, four of those five words, honey, I think they apply to us as leaders, and it doesn't matter what kind of product or service you have. You don't have to have a luxury product to provide a luxury level of service, and so those words, I think, define so much about what many of the people listening to this do anyway.

Jeannie Walters: 3:01

Yeah, I totally agree, and I think the word authentic in the middle there is really important and it's also something that you know we're, over the last decade plus, people have been asking for more authenticity,

Neen James: 3:15

Right

Jeannie Walters: 3:15

, and people can really kind of smell it when it's not right, right, like they can. They can really understand when it's not authentic. And that's what I think is so interesting about kind of the shift of that mindset that you're talking about, because it's not really all about that indulgence, it's about being authentic with that as well.

Neen James: 3:35

Yeah, and interesting too, despite what mindset people had in the research study, regardless of which of the four they were, they agreed on two things. Jeannie, they said that luxury is a reward for hard work, and I think that's really cool.

Neen James: 3:50

Second thing they said is luxury is about experiences, not things and I know that people listening to this would agree with that wholeheartedly, because it's not about the fancy handbag or the fancy car, it's about the experience you create, and so I believe my whole body of work is about getting people to feel seen, heard and valued, and so that's really the stealth message in this book. You mentioned my work in attention. For sure, attention is about connection, but I think luxury is about human connection, and luxury brands know more than so many how to make people feel seen and heard, and it doesn't always have to be expensive to make people feel valued.

Jeannie Walters: 4:46

That's absolutely true. Absolutely true. So this first headline that I have for us kinda fits into that world of you know, is it luxury and authentic and all those things?

Jeannie Walters: 4:48

This is about a trend that is really about going to authentic experiences, and this article from Investopedia actually points out this is kind of for the wealthy, but this is the headline is luxury travelers prefer spending thousands on authentic Nonna's kitchen over lavish hotel suites. So they're spending time in people's homes with Italian grandmas and they're learning how to cook with them and we're doing all of these interesting things. And you know, I could really this stood out to me for a couple of reasons. One is that I think that when we think about being in someone's home, like that, being invited, that can feel really special and inclusive.

Jeannie Walters: 5:32

And I think about some of the most unique experiences I've had as a guest, and some of them are. You know, there was a phase here in Chicago where there was a whole thing with supper clubs where you would literally be with 10 people and the chef would be coming in and out of her own kitchen and it was just really it was so intimate and special. And then the other, my family and I just went and spent a couple weeks in Japan and there was a restaurant where it was like 10 seats around a counter and I just remember feeling so like I don't know invited you know, I think that was part of it.

Jeannie Walters: 6:14

So this was pointing out like that that this isn't a either or the wealthy travelers are not saying like we're never going to a five-star resort, they're just mixing this up as part of their travel plan. So what's your take on that? A lot of this is around that authenticity, I think.

Neen James: 6:32

A hundred percent. And let me just talk to you about some travel trends as well at the same time. Right now we're talking about multi-generational travel, where often grandma is funding the entire experience for the whole family to take the cruise or to go and experience Italy in a different way. So one of the trends is generational travel, also to have a think of younger generations, where they're really craving experiences over things and that's been seen. They're very altruistic.

Neen James: 6:59

But when I look at the luxury mindset research study of the four mindsets, let me tell you what this appeals to. One of them is this person who's the luxury lover. Because what they want is behind the scenes exclusive access. If Nonna is going to add a little bit of flour to your dough because you don't have it quite right, they love that. The luxury lover wants behind the scenes access, the mindset of the pro prioritizer. Them, luxury is all about reputation and career and development. They are so engaged when a brand is authentic to your point and when it's sustainable. So what they love is working with things like a tour of Nonna's Kitchen because we're supporting the local community. They love society and environmental impacts.

Neen James: 7:48

The third mindset that I think this experience also helps us with is the confident and content mindset, because to them they say luxury, I don't need it, but you know how I'm going to use it to create memories of people I love. And so, of the four mindsets, three of them are being appealed to here, because in the luxury travel space, the ultra high net worth clientele and think of these as like your top tier clients. Maybe you're not working with the ultra high net worth client, but you have top tier clients. Something we can learn from the ultra high net worth is they want to be pioneers. They want to experience things others haven't. They want to be in Nonna's kitchen. They want to be some of the first to do that. They want to be in locations that others haven't been to before.

Neen James: 8:30

That is the privilege of some of the wealth being able to have these experiences. But if you translate that for your own business, maybe your clients want to have a tour of the physical therapy practice that you're running. Maybe they want to meet the engineers who designed the particular products that you created, so you can still offer something similar. But what clients want is an authentic connection, an emotional connection to you and your brand. Now, one of the other things that this article is brilliant at is it engages all five senses and luxury brands are genius at this.

Neen James: 9:08

So the taste of the actual pasta that you're making, the feel of the dough, as Nonna is adding that extra kind of flour, the smell of the garlic, that is all crisply, oh, it's just delicious. So, when you think about these authentic experiences, what we can also think about as brands is how do we bring more of the five senses in to elevate that experience.

Jeannie Walters: 9:30

Yeah, for sure, for sure. One of the things I've talked about sometimes is I have this really strong memory of the first time I ever walked into an Aveda store because of the sense, but then they offered me tea. They they came up and said you know, would you like a cup of comfort? And it's called comfort tea. And it was just one of those things where I was like where am I and can I live here now, like

Neen James: 9:58

I love it.

Jeannie Walters: 10:00

But I do think like there there is so much that can be evoked when we really tap into, kind of, the whole person, right, and that part of it.

Neen James: 10:09

Yes, and I think brands who are doing this. Well, if you think about if you've ever experienced an Edition hotel, if you go to the Tampa Edition I know you work with the city of Tampa. If you go to the Tampa Edition hotel, it smells the same as if I'm in Madrid at their Edition hotel, because they have a signature scent and so we can all think about how to bring more of these senses in, because our sense of smell is so directly connected to our emotional connection to what it is and we can remember those experiences.

Neen James: 10:37

So travel industry are doing this well, because they're leveraging the five senses, they're giving exclusive experiences. And here's the other thing they're making it share worthy, because people want to take those photos, post it on Instagram and then go tell their friends.

Neen James: 10:52

This was the experience that I had. So what memories are we creating with people that are authentic, by really and not curating the authenticity to your point before people can smell that a mile away it's genuine. It's not that Nonna reading off a script. She's got some old family recipe that she's gonna tell you how to make.

Neen James: 11:08

She'll probably tell you about the mistakes that have happened along the way, and you'll be part of that that conversation rather than a presentation.

Jeannie Walters: 11:16

Yes, yes, that's well said, well said, and I think this whole um, this whole discussion is, first of all, making me hungry, but it's also, I think, the whole like connection between authenticity and and how we feel about those relationships. This is really interesting, because the next thing that I would love to talk about with you is a little bit of the opposite of that, because this is about a, I mean it is a little performative, frankly, but it's still something that I think people will appreciate because it's a little different, it's unique, all the things that you talked about. So this is from Reuters and the headline is a luxury experience.

Jeannie Walters: 12:02

In China, global high-end brands bet on conceptual stores to review sales. This is specifically about Louis Vuitton and how they have a flagship store. That is, that looks like a ship. I'm going to bring over a visual here from another site, but this is let's see, this is the ship you can see here and this is the inside When you walk in and it's, they play up their trunks, their famous trunks, travel trunks, and they have kind of exhibitions throughout, and then they make a point in this article from D-Zine that it is basically ending up in the gift shop,

Neen James: 12:46

You bet!

Jeannie Walters: 12:48

Which I thought that's really unique, because you have to kind of go through a bunch of different places in order to get to the actual store, which is what they're putting there.

Jeannie Walters: 13:00

So there was a lot in this, but one of the things that also stood out to me about the article in general is that regular luxury brands like this they're closing their typical stores, but they're investing in these flagship experiential stores. So this store that we're talking about also has a cafe. They have different things going on. It reminded me of a few years ago, when I know Nordstrom and Macy's and those stores were starting to experiment with things like bringing in celebrity chefs to do cooking demonstrations, bringing in fitness instructors to do actual events, so I think that there's a lot of tie in with this. What really struck me about the Louis Vuitton example, though, was they're evoking all that emotion as you go through before you get to the gift shop. Just like a museum, right, like it's just like a museum. So what are your thoughts here?

Neen James: 14:01

You know, I think LVMH, Louis Vuitton Moet Hennessy, if you think about they have like Bernie, Bernard Arnault, he has like 75 brands in his portfolio, but what he's been continually genius at is elevating the experience. And so think about it. If you think about the flagship store of the Landmark Store of Tiffany in New York, when they were refurbishing it, the temporary store was stunningly beautiful. The facade that they used was incredibly clever. Look at what they did with Louis Vuitton's store in New York when they were building the new one. They wrapped it in luggage so it looked like it's one of the most photographed things in New York right now, while they had the temporary building with the Louis Vuitton Cafe, et cetera.

Neen James: 14:46

So what this brand has done which a lot of brands are doing well now when it comes to that, especially luxury retail, is they understand what I said at the beginning. Luxury is about experiences, not things, and they're leveraging both, because even if you just purchased a little bookmark at the gift store, you still feel like you can take home your experience of visiting that store. What they are doing is, instead of spending $15,000 on a particular bag, you might spend $100. You might spend $50 on something that they can take home with them, and that artifact becomes a time and a memory creator for you. So they're also making their products a little bit more approachable. They're also appealing to a diversity of audience. Now, with China, for example, we know that the spending had dropped in the luxury market, and so one of the things they're trying to do is reinvent. What are the things that really appeal to them? But here's the other thing If you go to this particular store whether it's the New York store or if it's in China you're spending longer in store. When you spend longer in store, you get more exposed to the different products and service levels, and you might be more tempted to invest or try something you hadn't before.

Neen James: 16:06

At the Louis Vuitton Cafe in New York, it's not just the cafe, which is one of the hardest reservations to get, but it's the little chocolate shop beside it. The people will queue up for an hour to pay premium for a logo on a chocolate so they can show it on social media and gift it to someone who's important to them. So I think this performance around luxury has always been there, but now, because of social media, they've had to amplify it. One of the things we talk about in the Exceptional Experiences book is thinking about creative ways to be share worthy. Now, hoteliers, retailers, tour operators, restaurants they're creating Instagrammable spaces because they're hoping that the people who are visiting their premise will then take photos and share it. So they're literally like the chefs all know that the camera eats first now, because we want to photograph the plate before we even take a sip or a bite, because we want to share it with our friends, right? So the performance of luxury has been elevated like theater, like a museum. It's all part of the cultural experience.

Jeannie Walters: 17:16

I love it. I love it. And I think the point about Instagram is so interesting too, because I think now some places are trying to find that balance because they're having too much of that and not enough purchasing or not enough. There was that cafe I think it was in New York really quaint little neighborhood cafe and they were just cute. It was super cute.

Jeannie Walters: 17:40

And they had to actually say like you are allowed, like one picture, basically because they were having a backlog of people, um, who were setting up lights and they were ordering one coffee and staying there for five hours and taking a table. So they really had to kind of say that's not why we're here. We love you sharing, we appreciate that, you appreciate the decor, but we're here as a coffee house for the neighborhood and they really kind of put their foot down. But the fact that you appreciate the decor, but we're here as a coffee house for the neighborhood and they really kind of put their foot down, but the fact that you and I are talking about that also shows that that was kind of a brilliant move too.

Neen James: 18:16

Shareworthy. Correct. So there's a there's a client that I have and people, it's a beautiful, premium hotel and people love to take a photo on the staircase. It's a very famous staircase. What they realized was people are making reservations, coming in, taking a photo, canceling the reservation and then leaving. Yeah, because it is a very premium location and it's an exquisite staircase. And so what they had to do was they had to then change the reservation procedure as far as cancellation fees when they got wise to what was actually happening.

Neen James: 18:48

Now what they've done is they've trained their team around the staircase to offer to take the two photos and then move people through. So we've come up with a compromise, but I think what businesses can take away from this is we need to really pay attention to what experiences our clients, our guests, our members, our students are noticing and then look to see how can we elevate that, or do we need to put some different processes in place. So this ship that they designed in China as an experience, using the best practices of people, movement, design, experiential design and, ultimately revenue, because not only are you and I talking about it, it's being shared everywhere because of the visuals.

Neen James: 19:32

And because they're also appealing to a particular consumer who wants to be able to share that with others.

Jeannie Walters: 19:38

Mm, hmm, it is, I mean, I think, now, anybody who is serving customers, serving anyone really Really, we need to just think so kind of four . now. Now We we have to think about not only you know, how can we set those expectations, how can we make sure we're delivering great service just like always, but all these other factors of how can we both make it share worthy and make the experience kind of balanced for everybody. So there's not a line or whatever.

Jeannie Walters: 20:10

we were in Japan recently, we had a tour of a very well-known place in Tokyo, a temple and lovely grounds all around, including some smaller shrines, and as we were walking up to the shrine there was a big sign saying no pictures and our tour guide said you know what that's to prevent this and that and like all these lines that they were having. So she said we're not, as long as you're not disruptive, like it's okay to take pictures. It was more about the disruption of the experience . to I felt like that was so interesting too, because when we saw it we thought, oh, it must be a rule, like we can't take this. You know, we took it very seriously and she was kind of like no, you can go ahead because you're

Neen James: 20:58

Doesn't it feel special, for you to have that extra permission.

Jeannie Walters: 21:01

It does. Yes!

Neen James: 21:01

It's a shame now, though, that we have to tell people what's appropriate and what's inappropriate, and I think and you know the the internet is full of examples where people have got too close to extinct animals, or they have got, you know, potentially in very dangerous or damaging areas next to artwork, and all sorts of horrible things have happened because people are quite thoughtless. Yes, one of the things I think we need to think about is, yes, we want to create experiences that people talk about, we want to create advocates for our business and our brand, but what we can also do is get back to the fundamentals using people's names, looking people in the eye, correctly spelling their names. You and I know what luxury is, but we also know what luxury is not.

Neen James: 21:44

So if we have to fill out that extra form that we've already given all our details or we're talking to the bot or the lines are too long. We know that doesn't feel like a luxury experience and, like I said, you don't have to have a luxury product to provide a luxury level of service. It's about also eliminating those friction points. So if you're, you'll get your beautiful tour guide knew the friction point was the experiences being disturbed by all the cameras. I'm so glad they took the opportunity to put some signage up, but what I love is she gave you permission to take that photo if you wanted to. That's actually very clever on her part.

Jeannie Walters: 22:17

Yeah, yeah, it was great. It was great. And I think that when we think about any experience, so much of it is about expectations. Right, we have to make sure we know what we're walking into, and you and I were talking a little bit before recording about how you know when you go into certain places and you know it's the same, no matter where. That's reassuring, that's something that's like comfort. Our friend, Stan Phelps everywhere he goes in the world he goes to McDonald's first.

Neen James: 22:47

Right, it's so funny.

Neen James: 22:48

Consistent.

Jeannie Walters: 22:50

Right, and he also wants to see like there are different regional things and things like that. But one of the places that I think this comes up is the you know all of our favorite coffee shop, starbucks. So this is from Yahoo Finance and Fortune. The headline is Brian Niccol, who, by the way, is the CEO of Starbucks, wants your Starbucks drink to be made within four minutes of ordering. But really this was an article about some of the changes that he's starting to make based on the fact that he wants to bring Starbucks back to being kind of the third place, the place that people feel connected. He got a lot of positive response when he talked about buying 200,000 Sharpies because he wants them to go back to writing and different things like that. But he also recognized and I'll give the last CEO some credit here, because this was recognized that the wait time because of mobile orders and because of drive through and because of all these things, wait time was getting pretty crazy. There were some reports up to 40 minutes in some locations.

Neen James: 24:00

Nope, nope, not for me.

Jeannie Walters: 24:01

Exactly.

Jeannie Walters: 24:02

In fact, you owe me time now. I'm not sure how he talked about four minutes, and there were a couple of things that stood out to me. One is I like that he's trying to achieve this balance of connection, of being that place and also recognizing, you know what, speed is important, efficiency is important. That is part of the experience. The other thing is he's talking about four minutes. I don't think that's based on data. I think he just came up with that number.

Jeannie Walters: 24:30

I think he just as far as I could tell, which I think is great because he's basically putting a line in the sand and saying let's go for it.

Jeannie Walters: 24:39

And it reminds me of some of the great stories of how Porsche decided one day that they were going to be in racing and decided to win the race. He just announced it and everybody had to go with it and all these different things. And so I think that part of what appealed to me about this kind of attitude is I've been in rooms I'm sure you have too where leaders know what the right thing to do is. They know that it's not right to help to have people wait for 40 minutes, but they say things like well, I guess we'll, you know, survey or we'll find out what the ideal time is. Like, sometimes we spend so much time and effort on research that we're not actually just making things happen for our customers, so that's what really stood out to me about this.

Jeannie Walters: 25:30

And then he also branded all this as the Green Apron Experience, and I loved that too. So all of those things I'm always like rooting for Starbucks. I hope they do well. So I'm curious about your take on all of those little changes.

Neen James: 25:49

One of the things that I talk about regularly with my clients whether it's in the consulting arrangements I have, whether it's as a keynote speaker, and we talk about this a little bit in the book and that is that we have this opportunity to move our client relationships from transactional to transformational. What Starbucks has been having this situation is very transactional. I order, I pick up. There's no connection with anyone, right? What they're trying to do, what Brian? He's trying to create a transformational experience where he wants these people to be advocates of his brand and, using something like Green Apron Service by naming it, he also wants to ensure people understand what he's trying to achieve. Some people want a transactional relationship with the brand. They want to be able to drive up, get their coffee and move on with their day.

Neen James: 26:36

And if we truly want to elevate and apply the luxury principles, I think we should look for all opportunities to make them more transformational. So if speed is going to import, which so many people, luxury of time is one of their number one luxuries, right? So if we know that that's important, you can still do that transaction with a transformational luxury approach, and the way you can do it is yeah, you can bring back the sharpie and handwrite the name or put a smiley face on the cup or look someone in the eye. We can do that and it takes moments. What I think we need to think about is I say this all the time I think we have to think like a concierge, not a bellhop. See, a bellhop is going to quickly move your bags through the foyer and get them to your room, and we want efficiency. We love that.

Neen James: 27:25

A bellhop is vital to the hotel operation. They're going to move bags. A concierge is going to create moments because they're going to anticipate needs you didn't even know you had. They're going to suggest that fabulous restaurant. They're going to give you that ticket to that private event that you wanted. And, as leaders, we need to think like a concierge, not a bellhop. And what Starbucks needs to do is they need to have their baristas, their team members, thinking like a concierge, where they can anticipate what the client wants and they can suggest the upsell. They can make it an experience. So they create a moment. We call those champagne moments in the book Something that brings you joy or makes you smile, taking an ordinary thing and making it extraordinary. I think starbucks has so many opportunities to do that, as to so many people listening here. What are those touch points you have with clients? You could turn into champagne moments.

Jeannie Walters: 28:22

For sure, for sure.

Jeannie Walters: 28:24

Well, I'm still rooting for them, because I think that one of the you know the, the last couple of I don't know how long now five plus years they've really been kind of trying to find their footing again, and I think one of the lessons we can all take from this is you know, it's okay to kind of stay stable while you're experimenting and not go too far, like you don't have to leap every time, because I think they took a lot of big swings and chances and it just and the world changes to expectations change. You know, the way that we interact as customers change. So I think that they're starting to almost go back to what made them them, and that's why I'm kind of rooting for them, because it feels like oh yeah, this is the Starbucks that we know,

Neen James: 29:14

and that's your authenticity, you said before.

Neen James: 29:17

It's that authentic connection that we had with our barista. When our barista recognizes us and their eyes light up and they smile, that moment, that champagne moment, that costs nothing, right, that's what I think we're missing. So if we can bring more of that back, plus they're trying to resource up, I agree with you. I think they have such an ability and they have such a big footprint. They could have a massive impact on our day just by starting our day or ending our day in this kindness, with this systemized thoughtfulness. I believe they could absolutely do that.

Neen James: 29:54

So like you, I'm rooting for them as well.

Jeannie Walters: 29:56

Well, I think you know, maybe next month we can get Brian Niccol on CX Pulse Check and he can tell us all about it.

Jeannie Walters: 30:03

But well, this was so much fun, as I knew it would be, and thank you for bringing your wisdom and your expertise, and your book is coming out when

Neen James: 30:15

October 14th. Exceptional Experiences

Jeannie Walters: 30:18

and pre-orders are available now, so go ahead and check that out. It's full of great stuff and I'm sure we'll be talking about it more and more in the coming months as well. But, Neen, thank you so much. This was absolutely a pleasure, and if our listeners and our viewers want to know more about you, what's the best way for them to reach out?

Neen James: 30:40

Please connect with me at neenjamescom. You can follow my adventures every day on Instagram at Neen James or reach out to me directly on LinkedIn. Thank you for having me on the show. I love what you do in the world. It was a privilege to be your guest.

Jeannie Walters: 30:49

Thank you so much. Well, thank you, and thank you for listening and for being here week after week with the Experience Action Podcast. Don't forget, you can ask me a question about anything customer experience or employee experience related at askjeannievip. I will see you next week and until then, keep your finger on the pulse. We've got a lot of work to do in customer experience. See you next time.