Jeannie Walters: 0:09

Hi everyone, I'm Jeannie Walters and this is the Experience Action Podcast and it's one of my favorite episodes our monthly CX Pulse Check. This is where we look at what's happening in the world around customer experiences maybe some things you've heard about, maybe some things you haven't and discuss what's, what can we learn from it? What do we want to take away from these real life examples? As always, I have a very special co-host here. I am delighted to invite my friend, Dr. Amy Climer to the stage here. Hi Amy!

Amy Climer: 0:42

Hi Jeannie, how are you?

Jeannie Walters: 0:44

I'm great, I'm so thrilled you're here, and Amy and I got to know each other at the CSP Summit, which is the Certified Speaking Professional designation we both have, and Amy is doing amazing things around creativity and teamwork and all sorts of things. So, Amy, I would love for you to not only tell them about yourselves, but also about your upcoming book.

Amy Climer: 1:07

Okay, great. Thanks, Jeannie, for having me here. So most of what I do is I'm an innovation consultant or I advise companies on how to be more innovative and I teach their teams the elements they need to be creative together and help them figure out hey, what's next? What's next in our work. And most of what I do, or I shouldn't say most, some of what I do is based on my PhD research and it culminated in this brand new book that's just out.

Jeannie Walters: 1:36

So pretty!

Amy Climer: 1:36

Thank you, I'm so excited. Deliberate Creative Teams: How to Lead for Innovative Results, and it's for leaders who want their teams to be more innovative, but they don't quite know where to start. And so I teach a system, because innovation is a system, it's not just like this one-off thing you're going to do here and there. So I get into all the details in the book and I'm really excited about it.

Jeannie Walters: 1:58

Well, we're so thrilled you're here because, you know, one of the pieces of our framework around customer experience is experiential innovation, because if you're learning all this about your customers and you're applying all the best practices but you never actually take that to innovate around what they're telling you or what you think they might need in the future, then what are we doing. Right? Like that has to be part of it. So I'm so excited I am. I was lucky enough to get a little early copy of the book, and I am exploring it right now and I'm very excited about it. So I can't wait for others to really understand what it is you bring to the table and learn from this about exactly what you said. It's a system, it's a way to approach innovation that will help you really get the results that you want.

Jeannie Walters: 2:43

So, because of that, I had some fun picking topics for us, because I thought about, like, what is innovation really? It's trying things, it's getting out there, it's exploring what could be next, or what should be next, even, and so I found a few headlines that I thought would be fun to explore. We both had a chance to look at these articles, and so this first one is from I always call it payments, but it's payments without the vowels, it's P-Y-M-E or sorry, p-y-m-n-t-s dot com, and this headline says turning screen time into seamless, personalized shopping, the future of in-car commerce. And that stuck out to me for a couple of reasons. One is when was the last time you were driving and were involved with commerce like in the moment, right?

Jeannie Walters: 3:32

Like, are we doing that? Maybe we are, and we shouldn't be, but this really is thinking about the screens that a lot of cars have now the way AI is introduced, and so the concept here wasn't really about what we might be familiar with with, like, if you're using a Google Maps, sometimes it says, hey, here's a gas station nearby, but this is more about integrating that with the actual car electronics and way finding and all that, where it says, oh, you're a little low on gas right now, so it knows the information about you and your car and it says, if you want to, there's this. You know you're in this traffic jam. Why don't you just pull off, have a cup of coffee while you gas up your car, or charge up your car, as the case may be? And so I was kind of struggling with this a little bit, because it feels like we're always so distracted anyway, and maybe when we're driving we shouldn't be. But, Amy, I'm really curious what you think about this.

Amy Climer: 4:34

My first thought was no. And then I got to the bottom of the article and it says it's already here. Yeah, every manufacturer except Tesla has it embedded. And then Tesla, they have their own version. So same difference, that's right. Yeah, I feel like you know there are a lot of people that I don't drive a whole lot because I work from home, and so I mean I might, in some weeks might, drive 10 miles at most.

Jeannie Walters: 5:01

Yeah.

Amy Climer: 5:01

But you know a lot of people. They really value that time as sort of quiet time space to be away from the distractions you know, maybe listen to some music. So I just thought, oh my gosh, just what we need is another distraction. So, yeah, I definitely am a bit concerned about it.

Jeannie Walters: 5:29

Well, and I think one of the things that if we flip the conversation about, why would they even try this? You know it's so hard to get people's attention today. It's so hard to break through the whole idea of. You know you used to be able to guarantee almost that most of the country would sit down and watch 60 Minutes, right, like that was a guarantee, so you could advertise there and get a message out. Now none of us watch live TV anymore. We are finding our media based on so many different things that now it's so segmented.

Jeannie Walters: 5:57

I just watched the Grammys, you know, and I was like so excited if I actually recognized one of the musicians, because some of them I was like wait what? How far behind am I?

Amy Climer: 6:07

Exactly.

Jeannie Walters: 6:08

But we all have our little pockets, and so I thought this was interesting because, to your point, a lot of people drive a lot and they spend a lot of time in their cars. 51% of consumers are expressing interest in AI features. So they're saying that, but I wonder if they really know what that means and what that means for access to their information and their data.

Jeannie Walters: 6:32

So my hope here because I understand the innovation argument here but my hope is that they are very transparent and um able to really give people the control so that somebody like you who might not want these distractions, you can just turn that off. You can say, don't bother me with this. Somebody else who drives a lot might say, yeah, let me know the coolest new spot in town. Right, that I can, that's on my way to work or on my way home. So I think that there are lots of ways to personalize this. They didn't really get into that too much in this article, so I'm curious. I hope that's kind of the next, the next wave here.

Amy Climer: 7:14

Yeah, I can see where you know, maybe if you're traveling and you're in a new place that you've never been and you might turn on like, hey, give me recommendations for cool cafes or something, and it was able to learn your type of preferences, then that could be really helpful. I think the interesting thing about this and I know with your background, Jeannie, and consumer experience and marketing, this is a constant tug is this feels like something that's very good for the company that's advertising, but not necessarily very good for the consumer.

Amy Climer: 7:47

It makes me think of, like those gas station pumps, there's the TV thing.

Amy Climer: 7:52

Yeah, and I'm just like, oh my gosh, seriously, we do not need to constantly be bombarded, and if there's a mute button on it I will push it or just try to walk away. But I wonder, how can the companies who are using this, how can they do it in a way that's actually helpful for the driver? And to me it almost gets into like a little bit of an ethical issue of you know, how much are you going to be bombarding people, and is it just about getting them to buy, or is it about really nurturing a relationship with them?

Jeannie Walters: 8:26

It's a great question, and I think the other thing that we talk about a lot here is, you know, people want choices, they want options, people have different preferences and I kind of bristle when I hear terms like digital customer.

Jeannie Walters: 8:39

I'm like no, no, no, when nobody just raises their hand and says, oh, always put me in this channel, no matter what. Right, because it's contextual as well, it's kind of in the moment, and I would love to see just more visible and easy control over that. Because I think about, you know, there is lots of data out there that says it's not just the screen that can be distracting, even if you're on hands-free a phone call that can be distracting to your driving. And so you think about maybe older people who, um, are fiddling with technology that maybe they're not as familiar with. Right, like what, what can we do to make this so easy and straightforward that maybe before you, before you take the drive, it says what would you like on this drive? Because the whole idea that we all kind of have to decide our fate in a data permission form, it's different for every person and maybe every drive, right? So I think that's where I would like to see this go.

Amy Climer: 9:45

I agree with you. I think it would be really important for the consumer to have a lot of control.

Amy Climer: 9:50

I mean, even to the point that maybe every time they get in the car they have to answer yes in order to see it so kind of opting in as opposed to opting out. But I also was thinking, going back to what is valuable for the driver, the consumer. I wonder, you know, instead of saying like hey, pull over to this gas station and get your you know, the new Snickers flavor or whatever, it's, like what if it's? Hey, there's a traffic jam coming up that you know it might be a little bit stressful, Would you like me to play some calming music?

Jeannie Walters: 10:21

I love that.

Amy Climer: 10:22

Or hey, you're in the midst of a traffic jam, it's going to be a while. Would you like me to to lead you through a breathing exercise? Or, even better, you're like, hey, we notice your heart rate's going up.

Amy Climer: 10:36

I guess eventually it could do that.

Jeannie Walters: 10:38

Yeah, connected to your, to your health watch, and yeah, exactly, I love that idea.

Amy Climer: 10:44

I think there's some ways to use this technology that's like truly beneficial. Yes, not just like oh cool, I got a new type of coffee or new Snickers bar, you know whatever it is. Yeah, so that would be really interesting to see is who's going to get really creative.

Jeannie Walters: 10:59

I love that.

Amy Climer: 11:01

Can I add one more thing? So in my book I talk about the definition of creativity, because we use this word a lot, and so the definition that I use is that creativity is novelty that is valuable, and I would definitely say this counts for novel. Right? Like this is something that we really maybe that's happening a little bit, but not much. It's very different, it's new, it's unique, that's really cool. And then my question is is it valuable and that's of course that's also in the eye of the beholder, right. Like it might be really valuable to the company, but not so much to the consumer, and so I would just encourage companies to think about that is how can they make it truly valuable?

Jeannie Walters: 11:41

I love that word valuable too, because one of the things we're seeing is that customers are more, they're savvier now. They're savvier about how their information is being used. They're savvier about the fact that they do have maybe more of a voice, more control, than they used to in the past and they're using that to say if you don't align with my values, then I'm either, I'm not going to shop with you, I'm going to tell people not to shop with you, I'm going to. I mean, we're seeing this in real time right now, with some decisions being made around which retailers to go to. People are selling certain types of cars right now based on alignment of values.

Jeannie Walters: 12:20

So, one thing that comes up again and again right now is sustainability and how important that is to people and how they're really looking for ways to live a more sustainable lifestyle. This isn't, you know, everybody, but there are. There's a segment, and you know, I was thinking wouldn't it be cool if you could kind of check a box that says sustainable and it says, well, over here is a independent used bookstore or a library or you know an independent coffee house. Like you could actually segment even more so that the choices that are presented are not necessarily just the kind of ordinary but the ones that align with your values. So there, I agree, there's lots of ways that I think you and I are being creative right now. We are, we're getting lots of ideas. I know, right, like just okay, so somebody go figure all that out so that Amy and I can take a drive and find all the cool places.

Jeannie Walters: 13:18

So, but you know this, this kind of idea that it's so hard to break through seems to be a theme in some of the things that I picked, because this next headline, instead of about driving, it's literally about where we live. And this is from the Wall Street Journal and the headline is your next apartment rental may also be a marketing campaign. And I'm going to read the sub headline here too. It says branded residencies are expanding from multi-million dollar penthouses to affordable rentals, like New Jersey's Fiat House. Now, you probably know that Fiat is not a housing development, it's a car brand, and they are trying to find ways to really put the brand in front of people.

Jeannie Walters: 14:07

And the story of this was really the juxtaposition between these branded residents exist already, but they're very high-end. They're, you know, um brands like I think there was, uh, Aston Martin and some really high-end uh yeah, I'm looking right now Bulgari, Armani, those types of things, and so they were multimillion dollar homes that you bought into. Now these branded residencies are saying, well, no, you can rent an apartment here, and the only thing you really give up is that it has some sprinkles of Fiat branding. Like they mentioned, some of the planters are shaped like their cars, which I thought was pretty cute. But the advantage for Fiat is that they put their brand on the building and so all the people driving by and everything, they get that level of exposure all the time. And then the renters kind of move in and out and maybe it doesn't mean anything to them, it's just part of the building.

Jeannie Walters: 15:07

But I think that this speaks to the idea that brands used to have this way of connecting to people. That was very standardized. I mean, the joke that people used to throw around was if your mom used Tide, you used Tide, right, they didn't even have to do anything. That was just what happened. And now people are more discerning, they are more likely to switch brands, all of these things. So it's about again getting that brand out there in just really creative ways. So I'm curious what did you think of this as far as innovation and creativity and all the things that we love talking about?

Amy Climer: 15:45

I mean, I would say again, you know, it does check that definition. This definitely, as far as creativity goes, it's novelty, it's novel. And then the question is it valuable? And then I think again is, to who, to whom? And my first thought when reading the article was like, oh gosh, I hope I never have to live in a place like this. And then I started thinking you, you know what, what, if, like, if the marketers and the creative teams that are working on this, if they're asking the people who live there like, hey, what do you need in your life, what, what's missing, not like, hey, what do you need in the lobby? Per se, but just, you know, what do you need? And maybe focusing more on that experience and facilitating experience for the people that live in the building.

Amy Climer: 16:30

Um, particularly I was thinking about, you know, I'm sure you've heard Jeannie, that we're having this like loneliness epidemic in the country, and you know, I mean I don't live, I live in a house, I don't live in an apartment complex, but like, I think there's it's very common that you probably just see people every day and you don't even know their names and that just kind of increases that, um, that distance that we have.

Amy Climer: 16:58

And I just recently had this interesting experience. I live in Asheville, North Carolina, and a few months ago Hurricane Helene hit and for 48 hours, nobody in the city had electricity, wifi, cell service, no way to communicate with anyone. And what happened is people started going to each other's houses and knocking on the doors and I know my neighbors I don't know all of them, but and yeah, people started coming over and when they came over, I was like so excited to see them, whereas, you know, the day before, when I had cell service, I would be like who is at my front door? You know, I've been all annoying, right, but it made me think about oh right, this is what we used to do.

Jeannie Walters: 17:42

That's right.

Amy Climer: 17:43

I think those connections were in some ways easier, or maybe I should just say they were different. And so, yeah, I was thinking like how could companies address some big issues and also get creative in their marketing and potential seller products?

Jeannie Walters: 17:59

Well, that's a really interesting angle because I think that's something that residential properties have really been trying to nurture. But it's challenging, right? And the prior Surgeon General who really talked about loneliness as an epidemic, he said something in an interview that just totally stuck with me because he said you know, if you go to a college dining hall, it used to be the loudest place on campus because everybody was talking. He said now it's quiet because they're just sitting on their phones and they're eating on their own. And I think that there is this whole shift of like how we interact with each other. And we had a client years and years ago who had realized like people wanted they actually wanted less living space in their apartments because they didn't have the stuff anymore. Like people don't have as many books, they didn't have their big album collections, you know, like things like that that all got smaller because of electronics. They didn't need that, but what they wanted was a place in the lobby to work on their laptop.

Jeannie Walters: 19:05

What they wanted was someplace where they could be surrounded by people, even if they're not really socializing, just to have that place. So they invested more in like the common spaces and had smaller apartments, so they got more people in the building, but they invested more in really how do we make the common spaces? And they started doing barbecues and different things to really get people to get to know each other. Because I agree that this is something that I think a lot of people are struggling with and organizations are struggling with even how to nurture it. Because one of the things we ran into with that client was they said well, we have people at the front desk. We asked them to host a barbecue and they're like I'm not talking to people, right, like I don't want to talk to anybody.

Amy Climer: 19:46

Yeah, exactly.

Jeannie Walters: 19:52

So, but people, right, like, I don't want to talk to anybody, yeah, exactly so. But this idea of like, could we rally around a brand like there are people who really identify with different brands like so could this be a way to make that connection? Absolutely. Could you do more with that and have people have more of an experience instead of just a transaction with the brand and build that relationship seems seems like it should work right? Um, that's hard to do when, because I bet the people who spend 22 million dollars on a penthouse they might not know their neighbors.

Amy Climer: 20:20

Right, yeah, but people who rent, sure yeah, and that's interesting too, just, you know, in the, in those two groups of people would have different desires and needs, and I think that's part of the hopefully, the responsibility that those who are doing the marketing would think about, like, okay, how do I segment a bit? You know, maybe you have some various events and one's kind of targeted to this group and the other to that group, even though maybe they're both open to both groups. And yeah, I think there's there's countless opportunities and possibilities.

Jeannie Walters: 20:54

Absolutely, Absolutely.

Jeannie Walters: 20:56

So really interesting, and I think it's going to be something we're going to see more and more and more of. But everything, everything kind of old is new again, right, Like when it comes to how we, how we build communities, how we do all of that, because we're realizing like hey, when we did knock on our neighbor's doors, that was kind of a nice experience, so we're you know, maybe some of that we'll be coming back to. But and I'm also glad that you are out of that period I know you all are still dealing with a lot of the aftermath of that and that was quite harrowing, so I'm glad that you and your neighbors are doing okay.

Amy Climer: 21:31

We're doing much better. Yes.

Jeannie Walters: 21:33

Good, good, so okay. So one last one. We don't have to talk too long about this, but I felt like this kind of went along with what we're talking about, where we talk about personalizing and AI that really relies on people's data and their personal data, like it's saying, yes, you can look at every purchase I've ever made and, yes, you can see my zip code and my, you know my salary, and like all of that. And this is from Ad Age, and this headline is Consumer Loyalty in 2025, why data transparency matters more than discounts, and the subhead here is marketers can no longer rely on deals to reel in first time customers, and this was compelling to me, because this is something that we've been talking about a lot with our our clients is customers are getting savvier, they understand how their data is used, they have questions about it and they are opting out more than they used to. So how do we, how do we give them what they want through that transparency, which is more personalization and understanding, and, at the same time, respect what they want as far as privacy and and just protection as well, and so I you know, this is something that I think a lot of brands are dealing with, and again it comes back to being visible, right like and really transparent about this is how we're using it. So what are your thoughts on this?

Amy Climer: 23:04

Yeah, it seems. I mean, I, I definitely I get the struggle right, like I. And I'm thinking, you know, from that consumer angle I have, this sounds ridiculous, but it's true that I have not bought things from a company just like anything, because I didn't want to be added to their email list and I didn't want to deal with unsubscribing and dah, dah, dah, and I was just like I'm just not going to buy that, and you know, these are mostly smaller things that I'm thinking of. But and so I? But then I was thinking, well, how could this be a positive again for that consumer? So how could the company shift this?

Amy Climer: 23:42

And I think that teams and companies are getting more transparent about the data. But I know, certainly when I see, like oh, here's how we use your data, like I don't really know what that fully means, right. I don't know what they're truly doing with it. Like, oh, they're analyzing it. What might be cool is if they'll say, well, like, let us have access to your data and we will give you your analysis back, and to say, hey, here's what we discovered about you and you know, like, we'll continue to use this information to customize experiences or customize our response to you.

Amy Climer: 24:18

But at the same time, I'm learning about myself, which could be, kind of interesting, so I don't know if that's how that would work.

Jeannie Walters: 24:27

Well, it's interesting because one of the things that, again, we've been talking about this for years is this idea that you know every, every retailer, every person, every interaction that you have. There should be kind of an easy to use dashboard, in my opinion, where you say, yes, you can have this data. No, not that one, this and every single access point that they want. They explain why.

Jeannie Walters: 24:52

You know, this will help us predict when you need your next thing. This will help us let you know to have maintenance on your car. This you know, whatever it is, because some of those things we've really grown accustomed to and appreciate, right, we like when they're proactive, about those reminders, when we don't wait until something breaks, when you know, oh my gosh, we're running out of our favorite moisturizer and it appears on our doorstep, right, like amazing. So some of those things we want to opt in and say, yes, please understand, when do I usually run out of this moisturizer? Send it to me, right, whatever. So I think that the the example that you used it's it's very um, bogged down in like language we don't understand, or things that, like the normal average shopper shouldn't have to have a degree in cyber security to understand how their data is used, and yet it can feel like that sometimes and then, once you agree, it's hard to figure out. Okay, wait, how do I check what they're using? How do I make changes? All of that.

Jeannie Walters: 25:56

The other thing that this article didn't talk about, but something I've been watching, is I were just talking about AI on the corporate side. I think customers are going to start using AI in really creative ways, like tell me if this fits within my warranty and tell me what I should ask for right. Like tell me, based on this, how is my data being used and should I be concerned, and how do I do this? Now, of course, that opens up a whole other thing about AI, but I think that the savvier that customers get, the more prepared every organization has to be to answer those tough questions of how are we using your data? Yes, you absolutely have control, and here's exactly how and here's what it's doing for you and if we can answer those things in a very transparent way.

Jeannie Walters: 26:48

I think that's what will build trust and loyalty. But, man, we've got a long way to go. We've just got a long way to go, and I think Apple is the one who kind of really is leading this conversation with the way that they give people control over do you want this app to track? And a lot of people are opting out and that's producing its own set of challenges for all these brands. But we live in interesting times.

Amy Climer: 27:13

We really do. We really do.

Amy Climer: 27:15

I feel like just your comment about AI makes me think about how it's so new, at least on the consumer side, and I mean, what a couple of years old. I don't remember when ChatGPT came out.

Jeannie Walters: 27:25

I think it was November 22 or 23.

Amy Climer: 27:28

Yeah, yeah, I learned about it initially at a National Speakers Association meeting. There you go, a CSP event, yeah, two years ago I think. And I think what I'm noticing in myself is that my biggest barrier in using AI is just to think about how to use it. It's so easy to use, it's just a matter of like, what questions to ask. And so just now I'm like, oh, this would be great. I could just, you know, cut and paste the disclosure and prop it in there, you know, pop it in there and say, hey, what do you think? Could I? How are they using my data? And I think, as more people talk about how they're using ChatGPT or other tools, then, yes, we're going to get a lot savvier. And and I think we I don't know cause I do also feel like there's like this generation difference, that where, like our generation, uh, are you kind of gen X?

Jeannie Walters: 28:22

Gen X yeah, proud gen X.

Amy Climer: 28:25

Yeah that we're not used to this, like we didn't grow up with this level of data analysis.

Jeannie Walters: 28:32

Right.

Amy Climer: 28:32

Whereas Gen Z, I don't really think as much about it. And so it'll be interesting to see how this changes and how some brands maybe have an easier go of it if they're marketing towards younger groups. I don't know. I don't know enough about it, but it will be interesting to see how that plays out.

Jeannie Walters: 28:50

Well, and Gen Z has figured out the workarounds too, like a lot of them have private accounts that they you know, that they, their parents don't know about, or the you know all these. So I think that that will be. The next thing, too, is that people might give exactly the data that they think will help them, instead of the true data about their themselves and their behavior. So I think we're at the tip of the iceberg with all of this, but it's super fascinating, and I think it all comes down to understanding who do you want to be for your customers and what is important to them, and constantly working on that alignment, because expectations change, the world changes, the tools change really fast right now, and so that's why I don't know I think creative innovation is so important.

Amy Climer: 29:39

I agree, I'm completely biased though.

Jeannie Walters: 29:43

Amy, remind everybody about your book and where they can find you, because you've got a lot of great stuff.

Amy Climer: 29:48

Thanks, yeah, so this is my new book. Just came out early 2025 here Deliberate Creative Teams: How to Lead for Innovative Results, and it's for leaders who want their teams to be more innovative but maybe don't know where to start and I go into a system of innovation that's pretty easy, pretty simple to implement. You can find the book on Amazon, Barnes and Noble anywhere books are sold, and you can find me at climerconsultingcom, and Climer is spelled C-L-I-M-E-R Climer Consulting, and I'm also on LinkedIn and all those other social media apps.

Jeannie Walters: 30:25

Well, I'm so thrilled that you were able to join me, especially the at this busy time with your book launch, but I think it's a. It's a great way to think about things and I'm really excited for that process to get out to the world so that people can really follow this system and innovate even faster and better than before. So thank you so much for being here, Amy.

Amy Climer: 30:45

Thank you and thank you, Jeannie.

Jeannie Walters: 30:48

And we'll make sure that all of those links are in the show notes as well. And thank you, listeners and viewers, for being here with us at the Experience Action Podcast. If you are wondering about your own level of experiential innovation, go ahead and check out cxicompasscom. That's our assessment that helps you understand where to prioritize within your own customer experience journey for your organization. So check that out at cxicompasscom and don't forget every other episode I am answering your questions. You can leave me a voicemail at askjeannievip. Thank you so much for being here, thank you to our special co-host, and I will talk to you soon.